Marian

I just wanted to let you know that I thoroughly enjoyed the article, and appreciated getting an inside look into their locale, mindset, and thoughts about adventure gaming. I'm looking forward to what follows.

Giligan

The people who work there are obviously evil.

__________________
Success is going from failure to failure without loss of enthusiasm.
-Cliff Bleszinski

Melanie68

Do you have any specific reason for saying so?

Squinky

Other than the fact that they're French?

__________________
Squinky is always right, but only for certain values of "always" and "right".

Melanie68

I asked because that comment, sitting there without any reasoning behind it, doesn't really add to the discussion and I didn't really want this thread filled with silly comments.

Squinky

Fair enough.

Going back on topic, I read the article, and found it interesting, even though I've never had any interest in any of the White Birds games. I admire how narratives are their main focus and how they can criticize their own past attempts at creating interactive narratives and subsequently try and improve on them. I'm also saddened by their acknowledgement that they may need to leave gaming altogether because of the state of the genre.

__________________
Squinky is always right, but only for certain values of "always" and "right".

Kurufinwe

I'm glad you enjoy it.

Truth be told, I miss the time of Sierra and LucasArts, when you felt you knew the company behind the game, the people who worked there, the way they thought. I mean, when you bought a Sierra game, you had a picture of the designer at the back of the box, the word from him/her in the manual, etc. Same thing at LucasArts, with the obligatory 'Our game design philosophy' section... And, of course, you had the magazines.

But developers now don't seem interested in doing that (apart from TellTale, which do it very well (in great part thanks to their outstanding web marketing team )). And in these days of email interviews, rushed meetings at E3 and similar venues, and of PR people from the publisher constantly trying to control everything, it's not that easy to get into the proper context to go beyond promotional stuff. So getting to know more about the people behind the games was really what I was primarily interested in when visiting White Birds.

Of course, it's always nice to get new info on the games too, but there are marketing people whose job is to make sure that this sort info reaches you sooner or later. Obviously, it's better to get the new info sooner rather than later, and it's better if it's first revealed here rather than somewhere else (and you're definitely going to get lots of info about White Birds' future projects in the following parts of the article), but, as far as I'm concerned, that's just the cherry on the cake.

Anyway, glad to see someone read that article -- and enjoyed it.

__________________
Currently reading: Dune (F. Herbert)
Recently finished: Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban (J. K. Rowling) [++], La Nuit des Temps (R. Barjavel) [+++]
Currently playing: Skyrim
Recently finished: MCF: Escape from Ravenhearst [+], The Walking Dead, ep. 1 [+++], Gray Matter [++]

tsa

But aren't they in a position to help change the state of the genre? I wonder if the way Paradise was received has had a big influence on how White Birds now thinks about adventure games.

Marian

I certainly did. And I liked the pictures of the locale, too. I remember the days of Sierra and Lucasarts with their newsletters and that sense of the companies being accessible, and your article did evoke those memories, as well as personalize the people and the company of White Birds.

Very cool you got to visit them, and I'll look forward to the rest of the article.

Wouter

Indeed, enjoyable read. Michel Bams has a good way of explaining things with simple comparisons. The message that came across though was not that optimistic.

There are a couple of things i could disagree on though. I'm still wowed by adventure graphics, when done right. In fact, i was wowed by the graphics (and atmosphere) in Paradise for example. However, White Birds should realise that Paradise was in fact a step backwards from the Syberia series, which were released years before. Also taking into account that it had so many bugs, i honestly don't think that they should be surprised about low sales.

However, if the bad quality comes from the lack of funds, then in the end, he is right again. And then they are indeed in a vicious circle.

I'm looking forward to the next articles and i'm extremely curious if they got it right with their new game, Sinking Island.

ozzie

Yeah.
Personally, I was turned off by Paradise because I read everywhere about these many bugs.
And I'm not sure if the most are fixed now. Not long ago I read on this forum I think that the main character simply disappeared and didn't come back!
I mean, at least I want to be sure that I am certainly able to finish the game....

But I liked the articles. On adventure-treff.de was also one about Deck 13, makers of Ankh and Jack Keane. They also seemed like very nice people which have fun doing what they want (and having success with it).

Nice to get this insight.

Melanie68

I'm not sure where you're at but it was recently released in the UK and that game has most likely been patched. If you buy a North American version, there are 2 patches for it:

Patch v1.1
Patch v1.1.3

I don't know if the v1.1.3 covers the v1.1.

ozzie

Thanks for the links!!

Draco2.5

I played the first Syberia game and found it to be dull and tedious. The companies other games appear to follow in the same suit and I've yet to see any evidence to the contrary.

__________________
As a young boy, when you get splashed by a mud puddle on the way to school, you wonder if you should go home and change, but be late for school, or go to school the way you are; dirty and soaking wet. Well, while he tried to decide, I drove by and splashed him again.
- Jack Handey

GreyFuss

Like Marion I also have enjoyed the first to parts of the White Birds article. Very well written and I am anxiously waiting for part 3.

Thank you

__________________
"Don't Hate Me Because I am Beautiful....There Are Many Other Reasons. "
http://home.earthlink.net/~greyfuss/

tsa

Yes, that happened to me. That was actually the best thing she did in the game

I sure hope White Birds take the comments about Paradise to heart. They have all that is necessary to make great games, and the things we read in the first two articles about them look very promising. I hope customers will still buy their games and make them a great player in the adventure scene.

GreyFuss

I am one that experienced absolutely no problems with Paradise and thoroughly enjoyed the game. The story was interesting and it wasn't until about a week after I finished that the ending which left me with my mouth open became more interesting.

Spoiler:

Since we were zoomed outside the Black Vault for the last scene and only heard a shot, what really happened? Did Ann shoot her father? Did King Rodon commit suicide since he was dying anyway? Was Siri, the leader of the revolution just using Ann all this time to get close to the king and followed her on board to kill him? It took me a while to realize that zooming our view to outside the Black Vault, then hearing the shot was excellent story telling and I realized that not all these games have to end happily. What happened in the end will remain a mystery. The only complaint about the story I have is what was the significance of the Black Panther? He was with us the whole game then forgotten in the end.

Good job White Bird and please continue with trying new ways to tell the story why we are playing.

__________________
"Don't Hate Me Because I am Beautiful....There Are Many Other Reasons. "
http://home.earthlink.net/~greyfuss/

AFGNCAAP

The articles were a fascinating read; thanks. I am impressed by the developers' ambitions... and at the same time slightly disillusioned. It seems like while they are good sports about the less-than-stellar reception Paradise got, they (or at least Michel Bams) don't seem to grasp that the criticism wasn't aimed (only) at the story. Also, on the one hand they acknowledge that "as far as adventure games are concerned, conservatism doesn't pay", but on the other -- again, why apply this only to the story? I mean, not wanting to parrot LucasArts- and Cyan-style puzzles is fine, but if all you introduce in their stead is the equivalent of "page turning", you are playing it safe, and thus being conservative.

That said, I feel and hope Sinking Island will be a new chapter for White Birds, if only because a detective story should provide gameplay tasks more naturally. And the idea of constantly-shrinking-playing-area definitely has an awesome potential. I am anxiously awaiting the preview. (The second Jack Norm game also piqued my interest, as would everything that mentions "Elizabethan theatre". )



PS. The link at the bottom of Part One leads back to Part One.

__________________
What's happening? Wh... Where am I?

Kurufinwe

Hey, get back to modding, you deserter!

That's not completely true. You'll note that Bams said that they felt they had reached the end of the road for Syberia-like gameplay. And I think that was included in the "too close to Syberia" criticism he had against Paradise.

What makes White Birds different from other companies is that, usually, game designers have a strong gaming background, and gameplay comes first in their mind, or at least it's always somewhere in their mind when evolving the story. I don't think it's the case with Sokal (though the other people seem to have a much stronger gaming background; Bams seems to have played just about every game in every genre released in the last 20 years). What seems to have happened with Syberia/Paradise is that he wrote a story, and then they had to find a way to graft gameplay on it. And there's no reason why that should work well. Certain stories are naturally suited to adventure games (detective stories, McGyver-like characters, etc.), just like certain stories are naturally suited to other genres, but I don't believe for one moment that gameplay can be grafted on just any story successfully. While I do believe that some interactivity can be an interesting narrative device when telling Paradise's story, I think gameplay (any sort of gameplay) is completely alien to it. And, to be completely honest, I've yet to be convinced that it can be done with Nikopol.

I don't want to spoil my preview here, but I was very, very favourably impressed by Sinking Island. As I said above, detective stories lend themselves well to adventure games. Still, getting detective gameplay to work well is actually quite difficult to do, and most detective games I've played failed to do it well. But what I saw of Sinking Island really worked. The gameplay wasn't bearable: it was fun. Obviously, I've just played a short part of the game, and it may start sucking after a while. But my first impression is definitely favourable, and, if it's not crippled by bugs, I feel SI will do well.

Of course not. You're just confused.

__________________
Currently reading: Dune (F. Herbert)
Recently finished: Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban (J. K. Rowling) [++], La Nuit des Temps (R. Barjavel) [+++]
Currently playing: Skyrim
Recently finished: MCF: Escape from Ravenhearst [+], The Walking Dead, ep. 1 [+++], Gray Matter [++]

tsa

I just read the third installment of the series. These people are ver, very ambitious! If even half of what they want to do gets to market we're in for some real treats. O yummie, my nerdy heart beats faster when I think about the game engine that runs on all platforms they talked about. Hopefully this engine will be used to make more games for the Mac too!
The articles were all very interesting and gave us a good insight into what drives the people at White Birds and what they are working on. Kudos to Johann Walter for writing these fine articles, and all the best and good luck to White Birds!