You Lose (X360 vs. PS3) - Page 15

undeaf · 11-20-2006, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Intrepid Homoludens

No. Sony is being punished for becoming incompetant, lazy, irresponsible and arrogant.

No, if they were the PS2 would have been a lot less successful. And so would sony's other divisions.

Intrepid Homoludens · 11-20-2006, 03:57 PM

We're not talking about the PS2 here, undeaf, nor of any other of Sony's products.

undeaf · 11-20-2006, 04:13 PM

I gave you a reason for why the PS2 is relevant to this. It was much more successful than it's innitial merits would warrant, so it's success gives people unrealistic expectations of the PS3's innitial capabilities.

If people were really all that concerned that sony disrespects them, they be wary of them accross the board.

Sony is not incompetant, they're willing to gamble. They might even be perfectly fine with the PS3 being a failure but enabling blue ray to beat HD DVD.

CrimsonBlue · 11-20-2006, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by undeaf

Why not? As soon as the cost of it drops to a more reasonable amount, I'm sure microsoft will use it for games. If they don't, toshiba would be very upset with them.

Because if games came on HD-DVD format, they'd split the market considerably. If they do release games on HD-DVD eventually, there will be an outrage and they will shoot themselves in the foot, because their "optional" isn't really an optional anymore. So people will sell the 360 and buy a PS3 instead, since you already have everything in that one. I wouldn't be happy if I was forced to buy a HD-DVD drive (an external one even) to play the games I want to play. So I'd probably sell it as a protest. I won't buy a HD-DVD drive, 'cause a)I'm not interested in a HD-DVD drive for films, and b) I already have more than enough under my telly, thank you. The extra HD-DVD isn't excactly small, so a lot of people won't buy it simply because it takes up too much extra space. Imagine if a racing game required you to use a force feedback wheel.

Using upgrades for consoles have never worked, and never will be. MegaCD was a big fiasco, for example. Same with N64 DD (or whatever they called it).

undeaf · 11-20-2006, 05:35 PM

Really, you'd be that upset about a $50-100 add on?

If it's all that big, microsoft will shrink it down, and/or they will make a version of the 360 with it built in.

MegaCD was made for one reason in Japan and was clumsily addapted for other things in the other markets, it also had an extra CPU and ram in it to increase costs, and could not be used to help push through a format. N64DD was expected to be a failure by nintendo.

Spiwak · 11-20-2006, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrimsonBlue

Because if games came on HD-DVD format, they'd split the market considerably. If they do release games on HD-DVD eventually, there will be an outrage and they will shoot themselves in the foot, because their "optional" isn't really an optional anymore. So people will sell the 360 and buy a PS3 instead, since you already have everything in that one. I wouldn't be happy if I was forced to buy a HD-DVD drive (an external one even) to play the games I want to play. So I'd probably sell it as a protest. I won't buy a HD-DVD drive, 'cause a)I'm not interested in a HD-DVD drive for films, and b) I already have more than enough under my telly, thank you. The extra HD-DVD isn't excactly small, so a lot of people won't buy it simply because it takes up too much extra space. Imagine if a racing game required you to use a force feedback wheel.

You realize you've just said exactly why the price of the PS3 is such an issue, right?

Intrepid Homoludens · 11-20-2006, 08:03 PM

Microsoft stock upgraded on digital entertainment | Joystiq.com, 11/20/06

Quote:

After last Friday's PS3 launch, the world (Sony's idea of the world that is) finally got a taste of what the PS3 is ultimately about. With the ho-hum reception the system has been getting over the weekend, analysts around the world can finally get an idea of how the next gen battle will shape up. Credit Suisse, an ultimate non-fanboy (if they chose wrong, they can stand to lose a lot of money), has decided to upgrade Microsoft's (MSFT) stock.

Credit Suisse cited Microsoft's improving position in digital entertainment as a key reason why they chose to upgrade the stock to "outperform" from neutral; Credit Suisse expects Microsoft stocks to improve by 20%. Digital entertainment -- officially known in Microsoft as the Entertainment and Devices Division -- includes the Xbox 360.

While we can only postulate what part of digital entertainment is responsible for the upgrade, the Xbox 360 leads the pack; it is singled out in Microsoft's annual report as the key reason why the division posted more than $1 billion in revenue growth fiscal year 2005 to fiscal year 2006. Could the lack of post-launch PS3 love be the reason Microsoft is getting the thumbs up from a major financial institution?

Litrick · 11-21-2006, 12:15 AM

I dont understand why people form loyalties to one company and stick by it even if it defies logic.
why not just look at it objectively, see which console has the best games and then buy that.... people get so biased by their strange loyalties its just ridiculous...

Regardless, you only need to look at society and its perception towards video games and playstation to see that the ps3 is going to be a huge success. for example a lot of people refer to playing video games as "playing playstation" regardless of whether or not they are actually refering to a specific playstation. Playstation has become synonymous with video gaming, it is entrenched in our society...

just buy both.. then you dont have to worry about which is better

(i know i know money money money)

CrimsonBlue · 11-21-2006, 12:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spiwak

You realize you've just said exactly why the price of the PS3 is such an issue, right?

Nope. People want all-in-one boxes. That's the REASON they buy consoles. And if Microsoft let developers make games on HD-DVD, they'd alienaite 80% of their customers, as a lot of people who already bought the X360 will feel like they've been screwed. Remember Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles? Biggest complaint with the game was that you had to own multiple GBAs to play multiplayer. Forcing customers to buy extra hardware to play their games is a bad business strategy. Only the few extremely die hard fans will buy their games, and games that could've been huge successes will instead be huge failures.

In short, extra hardware to run games on a console is a bad idea. That's why the PS3 is a better solution. It's the same with the harddrive solution they provided. Every PS3 will be fitted by default with a harddrive. This means that the PS3 developer can make use of the harddrive in ways that the X360 can't. If the X360 developers DID rely on harddrive to run their games, they'd alianate a lot of their users. By giving the gamers options, they limit the extra hardware's use. Consoles are supposed to be universal. If it's not universal, it's whole point is gone. In that case, you might as well buy a PC.

insane_cobra · 11-21-2006, 01:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Litrick

Regardless, you only need to look at society and its perception towards video games and playstation to see that the ps3 is going to be a huge success. for example a lot of people refer to playing video games as "playing playstation" regardless of whether or not they are actually refering to a specific playstation. Playstation has become synonymous with video gaming, it is entrenched in our society...

Exactly, but that still doesn't mean PS3 will sell to those people. Walkman was also such a brand, but soon people started using that word for all portable cassette players, Sony-made or not. Even my grand parents have a vague idea of what playstation is ("you play games on it"), but I doubt they know it's an actual product made by Sony.

Litrick · 11-27-2006, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by insane_cobra

Exactly, but that still doesn't mean PS3 will sell to those people. Walkman was also such a brand, but soon people started using that word for all portable cassette players, Sony-made or not. Even my grand parents have a vague idea of what playstation is ("you play games on it"), but I doubt they know it's an actual product made by Sony.

I get your analogy, but disagree. At the end of the day all the brands that made a "walkman", did exactly the same thing. they were interchangeable, and price would be the determining factor in buying one. The difference with the playstation is that the brand in so entrenched, just like walkman was, but it is a unique product with unique hardware and software, and there is only three choices available to the consumer. So the playstation brand being synonymous with video games will defineatly help it to sell, as it is perceived as the obvious choice to those who dont know much about the consoles.

On another note, i bought a 360 couple of days ago purely for gears of war... that game is incredible...
Have to wait till March to be able to pick up my ps3 in New Zealand...

insane_cobra · 11-28-2006, 05:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Litrick

The difference with the playstation is that the brand in so entrenched, just like walkman was, but it is a unique product with unique hardware and software, and there is only three choices available to the consumer.

I don't think that makes any difference, all consoles also do the exact same thing, they play games. There are other things that some of them provide, like movie playback and web access, but PlayStation is not synonymous with any of those activities and people's perception of PlayStation as a games machine could actually hurt PS3 on those fronts.

I do, however, agree that its brand name will help it to sell - after all, the brand recognition is the strongest thing PS3's got going for it at the moment - I just don't think the name alone will be enough to sell PS3 to all those people that see "PlayStation" and "video game console" as interchangeable terms. PS3 is very expensive, even without taking a new TV set purchase into account. It doesn't matter if the price is justified or not, it's still very expensive so some of those folks will have to ask themselves (or store clerks) if there are any alternatives. And Sony is bound to lose some customers that way.

Solid Snake · 11-28-2006, 05:58 AM

True enough.

Litrick · 11-28-2006, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by insane_cobra

I don't think that makes any difference, all consoles also do the exact same thing, they play games. There are other things that some of them provide, like movie playback and web access, but PlayStation is not synonymous with any of those activities and people's perception of PlayStation as a games machine could actually hurt PS3 on those fronts.

I do, however, agree that its brand name will help it to sell - after all, the brand recognition is the strongest thing PS3's got going for it at the moment - I just don't think the name alone will be enough to sell PS3 to all those people that see "PlayStation" and "video game console" as interchangeable terms. PS3 is very expensive, even without taking a new TV set purchase into account. It doesn't matter if the price is justified or not, it's still very expensive so some of those folks will have to ask themselves (or store clerks) if there are any alternatives. And Sony is bound to lose some customers that way.

the playstation brand brand not being recognised for video playback or web access will not hurt sales, as all the consoles are in the same boat. Also, those purchasing for those reasons will be well aware of the blu ray drive in the ps3. Having great brand recognition can only be a positive thing for sony. I agree the price will be prohibitive for some, but i beleive sony have gotten themselves to a position in the market that has never been seen before i.e their market share is so large, and their previous consoles have received so much adoration and positive press, that a third console is so anticipated and expected to be amazing by even those who know nothing about video games. I think sony would really have to screw up the ps3 horribly to fall down to the bottom from their position at the top, and from what we can see of the ps3, it has more than enough to compete, and therefore will succeed.

At the end of the day, i think the video game market is now so large, the three consoles can probably co-exist quite peacefully.

Solid Snake · 11-28-2006, 01:38 PM

Ha, there is no way that three consoles can coexist peacefully because everybody knows this is a war.Also check this http://ps3.ign.com/articles/747/747646p1.html.

insane_cobra · 11-28-2006, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Litrick

the playstation brand brand not being recognised for video playback or web access will not hurt sales, as all the consoles are in the same boat. Also, those purchasing for those reasons will be well aware of the blu ray drive in the ps3.

First of all, we're not talking about people who will buy PS3 for video playback, we're talking strictly clueless mainstream customers because you said PS3 would sell well to them (and talking hypothetically because I'm not sure there will be that many clueless customers this time around). I meant that those people wouldn't be able to use PS3's additional functionality as justification for its much higher price point; they see PS3 strictly as a games machine.

Quote:

I agree the price will be prohibitive for some, but i beleive sony have gotten themselves to a position in the market that has never been seen before i.e their market share is so large, and their previous consoles have received so much adoration and positive press, that a third console is so anticipated and expected to be amazing by even those who know nothing about video games.

As I said, practically nobody will plunk down $500/$600 without getting thoroughly informed on what they're buying, and right now most press outlets are saying that PS3 is just not worth it yet. If Sony is in such a great position, how come PSP isn't doing better? And by that logic, wouldn't the lukewarm reception of PSP hurt Sony's image to some extent?

Litrick · 11-28-2006, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by insane_cobra

First of all, we're not talking about people who will buy PS3 for video playback, we're talking strictly clueless mainstream customers because you said PS3 would sell well to them (and talking hypothetically because I'm not sure there will be that many clueless customers this time around). I meant that those people wouldn't be able to use PS3's additional functionality as justification for its much higher price point; they see PS3 strictly as a games machine.

As I said, practically nobody will plunk down $500/$600 without getting thoroughly informed on what they're buying, and right now most press outlets are saying that PS3 is just not worth it yet. If Sony is in such a great position, how come PSP isn't doing better? And by that logic, wouldn't the lukewarm reception of PSP hurt Sony's image to some extent?

there are a lot of people out there that $600 is not a lot of money to, and would buy a game console for little jimmy purely from knowing the name. Secondly, as i pointed out, associating sony in your mind with the best video gaming experience can only be beneficial when you think about things like video playback and other functionality. Do you really think nintendo or microsoft would fare any better with people for perceived performance in these areas? I beleive most people would see a benefit in having a blu ray drive if they are buying a high definition games console, and this could have an impact on sales. However i do agree most buyers will be well informed and will be looking for specific features.

Yes there has been a lot of negative press, but come on, you saw that coming.. its cool to hate the dominant player. There would be negative press even if the launch was stellar. However despite the negative press, look at the hype and anticipation for the console, people want the new playstation... its a new playstation, it doesnt really matter if it is good or not for a lot of people, you have seen how illogical fan boys can be. As far as the PSP is concerned, i wasnt aware it was a failure? but the reason the DS is such a success is the exact reason i am saying why the ps3 will be a success... the public perception that handheld gaming is synonymous with nintendo...

EvoG · 11-28-2006, 10:02 PM

As we know history repeats itself, yet people are clouded into thinking Sony exists outside of it. Without drilling the point home, I need only mention Atari and Nintendo as once dominant forces. Nintendo is quite wealthy and profitable, but its clearly understood as being the underdog in the console war.

Just because Sony shipped 100 million PS2's primarily at the END of its product life cycle doesn't mean its a guaranteed to duplicate that. You must keep in mind that the price tag in this particular instance is unprecedented; we had unknown consoles come into the field at that price point and fail miserably, but now we have a generation leader trying it, so its impossible to call. On one hand we can quickly surmise it will do poorly based on cost as indicated historically, or on the other, we can say it will do quite well on brand alone.

Ultimately though a product won't reach mass market penetration without the right price, and regardless of the brand name in this instance, that price needs to come down before the PS3 can gain momentum. Its impossible to predict its success on 200k units sold worldwide...there are easily a million fans that will drop that money. But are there 20 million? I honestly don't believe it no. So predicting its success on the microscopic install base, as many are, is pointless. Of COURSE its going to sell out.

Fortunately for the 360, the upcoming 10 million unit milestone is a BIG deal, and with it now profiting off sales of the console, its in prime position to attack the PS3's weak point for massive damage (sorry couldn't resist...never had an opportunity to use it.

). Joking aside, the reason this is important to note is to show that any console with a focus on the gaming experience can and will succeed, and that branding has less to do with it than that experience. Sure branding sells to the ones giving gifts, who are general not in the know, but beyond that, gamers who live and breath this entertainment expect certain things. PS2 did so well mainly because it was marketed as an advanced piece of technology(great PS9 commercials), but moreso because it had the likes of MGS and Final Fantasy and other killer exclusives to spearhead its sales. Couple that with honestly no competition unfortunately from the glorious Dreamcast, and it was left to build its install base, hence its developer support, and ultimately a killer library.

We need all three to succeed for the benefit of us gamers, but Sony needs to stop trying to force formats on us and just cater to the gamers. Give them a great price point and a bevy of exclusives. This pissing match about tech specs and bombastic exclamation of the definition of "next-gen" has left a bad taste in a lot of gamers mouths. Shouldn't a great many of you Sony supporters be curious as to the backlash? Its clearly not arbitrary if you're hearing the same unanimous outcry against Sony from people that love games and love their PS2's.

I believe the greatest number of my favorite games are on the PS2, and I own practically every console ever made since the Atari 2600, and I'm a PS3 detractor. How do you explain that? Is it a coincidence? I most definitely make enough money so its not financial...so what is it? Perhaps there is something clearly and fundamentally wrong this time around, and THATS what has many of us questioning Sony's success this generation, brand name be damned. It will be successful, but to the same degree I highly doubt. Xbox, as I said, was a non-issue last gen, but its a completely different beast this time around, and what a refined beast it is. Success in the face of real competition is what changes the playing field. Just remember its the games that make a console, and MS has clearly done a tremendous job in courting exclusives...if the install base is large enough, THATS where dev's and pub's go, as they obviously want to push the most games, and in this day and age of production costs, thats priority number one. Console has penetration, console gets more exclusives, gamers buy more of that console, cycle repeats until the console is the clear victor with the most exclusive experiences.

...and just to finish, the Wii kicks all sorts of ass, and I'm having a blast mastering Red Steel's somewhat glitchy control and Zelda's tactile feel to everything. My arms are sore from my daily, hour long training sessions in Wii sports (tennis target practice is the best thing ever) and Raving Rabbids is by far the most torturous game ever made, hehe. Bring on Madden! ( I haven't played a football game since Madden was just called Madden with no year date, back on the Sega Genesis). For the sake of the topic, I won't toss the Wii into the mix, but be for damn sure its going to make an impact thats clearly going to shift appeal away from Sony.

Cheers

Solid Snake · 11-29-2006, 12:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Litrick

As far as the PSP is concerned, i wasnt aware it was a failure? but the reason the DS is such a success is the exact reason i am saying why the ps3 will be a success... the public perception that handheld gaming is synonymous with nintendo...

No, PSP is a failure because PSP is so damn expensive, has a very limited array of games and hasn't got much to offer other than nice graphics.Nintendo DS sells more but not because it has Nintendo Logo on it,but because unlike PSP it delivers what it promises which is cheap,clean,old school fun.In short just the "public perception" is not enough to sell a console.In other words, you're wrong .

insane_cobra · 11-29-2006, 02:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Litrick

Yes there has been a lot of negative press, but come on, you saw that coming.. its cool to hate the dominant player. There would be negative press even if the launch was stellar.

Please... If you actually took time to read the press reactions, you'd see there wasn't much hateful bashing, it was mostly disappointment, coming even from people who were looking forward to PS3.

Quote:

However despite the negative press, look at the hype and anticipation for the console, people want the new playstation... its a new playstation, it doesnt really matter if it is good or not for a lot of people, you have seen how illogical fan boys can be.

Apparently, most people are not that crazy about PS3 anymore. After the initial craze, eBay prices took a dive and there were even reports on some units not even reaching their retail prices. Like EvoG said, the percentage of hardcore fans is relatively small (though I'd say there are at least 10 million worldwide) and even some of them are jumping the ship. If you've been checking out the mainstream forums, you must have noticed all those long time PlayStation fans who simply decided they're not getting one for the time being. Some of those reports are undoubtedly fake, but they can't all be. People working in places like Bust Buy and GameStop are reporting Wii and Xbox 360 are selling like crazy, it will be interesting seeing the sales numbers for November. Interestingly enough, folks don't seem to be that excited about PS3 anymore.

Quote:

As far as the PSP is concerned, i wasnt aware it was a failure?

Based on the hadware and the brand name, everyone predicted it would wipe the floor with DS. It's not a failure, it's a letdown.

Quote:

but the reason the DS is such a success is the exact reason i am saying why the ps3 will be a success... the public perception that handheld gaming is synonymous with nintendo...

Like Solid Snake explained, that's not the only reason DS succeeded, otherwise GBA Micro would have also outsold PSP which, as far as I know, hasn't happened (maybe in Japan

).

Quote:

Originally Posted by EvoG

Fortunately for the 360, the upcoming 10 million unit milestone is a BIG deal, and with it now profiting off sales of the console, its in prime position to attack the PS3's weak point for massive damage (sorry couldn't resist...never had an opportunity to use it.

).

Behold one of Viva Pinata loading screens:

It's the new all your base are belong to us!

11-20-2006, 03:57 PM	#282
Intrepid Homoludens merely human Last Online: 05-17-2012 02:26 AM Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Chicago Posts: 22,309	We're not talking about the PS2 here, undeaf, nor of any other of Sony's products. __________________ platform: laptop, iPhone 3Gs \| gaming: x360, PS3, psp, iPhone, wii \| blog: a space alien \| book: the moral landscape: how science can determine human values by sam harris \| games: l.a.noire, portal 2, brink, dragon age 2, heavy rain \| sites: NPR, skeptoid, gaygamer \| music: ray lamontagne, adele, washed out, james blake \| twitter: a_space_alien

11-20-2006, 04:13 PM	#283
undeaf Junior Member Last Online: 12-24-2009 07:25 PM Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Tee Oh Posts: 842	I gave you a reason for why the PS2 is relevant to this. It was much more successful than it's innitial merits would warrant, so it's success gives people unrealistic expectations of the PS3's innitial capabilities. If people were really all that concerned that sony disrespects them, they be wary of them accross the board. Sony is not incompetant, they're willing to gamble. They might even be perfectly fine with the PS3 being a failure but enabling blue ray to beat HD DVD. Last edited by undeaf; 11-20-2006 at 04:19 PM..

11-28-2006, 05:58 AM	#293
Solid Snake Slim Shady Last Online: 02-03-2014 03:41 PM Join Date: May 2006 Location: Outer Heaven Posts: 727	True enough. __________________ I’m gonna make you hate me cause you ain’t me.

11-28-2006, 01:38 PM	#295
Solid Snake Slim Shady Last Online: 02-03-2014 03:41 PM Join Date: May 2006 Location: Outer Heaven Posts: 727	Ha, there is no way that three consoles can coexist peacefully because everybody knows this is a war.Also check this http://ps3.ign.com/articles/747/747646p1.html. __________________ I’m gonna make you hate me cause you ain’t me.

11-28-2006, 10:02 PM	#298
EvoG FlipFrame Last Online: 05-28-2007 10:45 AM Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Chicago Posts: 471	As we know history repeats itself, yet people are clouded into thinking Sony exists outside of it. Without drilling the point home, I need only mention Atari and Nintendo as once dominant forces. Nintendo is quite wealthy and profitable, but its clearly understood as being the underdog in the console war. Just because Sony shipped 100 million PS2's primarily at the END of its product life cycle doesn't mean its a guaranteed to duplicate that. You must keep in mind that the price tag in this particular instance is unprecedented; we had unknown consoles come into the field at that price point and fail miserably, but now we have a generation leader trying it, so its impossible to call. On one hand we can quickly surmise it will do poorly based on cost as indicated historically, or on the other, we can say it will do quite well on brand alone. Ultimately though a product won't reach mass market penetration without the right price, and regardless of the brand name in this instance, that price needs to come down before the PS3 can gain momentum. Its impossible to predict its success on 200k units sold worldwide...there are easily a million fans that will drop that money. But are there 20 million? I honestly don't believe it no. So predicting its success on the microscopic install base, as many are, is pointless. Of COURSE its going to sell out. Fortunately for the 360, the upcoming 10 million unit milestone is a BIG deal, and with it now profiting off sales of the console, its in prime position to attack the PS3's weak point for massive damage (sorry couldn't resist...never had an opportunity to use it. ). Joking aside, the reason this is important to note is to show that any console with a focus on the gaming experience can and will succeed, and that branding has less to do with it than that experience. Sure branding sells to the ones giving gifts, who are general not in the know, but beyond that, gamers who live and breath this entertainment expect certain things. PS2 did so well mainly because it was marketed as an advanced piece of technology(great PS9 commercials), but moreso because it had the likes of MGS and Final Fantasy and other killer exclusives to spearhead its sales. Couple that with honestly no competition unfortunately from the glorious Dreamcast, and it was left to build its install base, hence its developer support, and ultimately a killer library. We need all three to succeed for the benefit of us gamers, but Sony needs to stop trying to force formats on us and just cater to the gamers. Give them a great price point and a bevy of exclusives. This pissing match about tech specs and bombastic exclamation of the definition of "next-gen" has left a bad taste in a lot of gamers mouths. Shouldn't a great many of you Sony supporters be curious as to the backlash? Its clearly not arbitrary if you're hearing the same unanimous outcry against Sony from people that love games and love their PS2's. I believe the greatest number of my favorite games are on the PS2, and I own practically every console ever made since the Atari 2600, and I'm a PS3 detractor. How do you explain that? Is it a coincidence? I most definitely make enough money so its not financial...so what is it? Perhaps there is something clearly and fundamentally wrong this time around, and THATS what has many of us questioning Sony's success this generation, brand name be damned. It will be successful, but to the same degree I highly doubt. Xbox, as I said, was a non-issue last gen, but its a completely different beast this time around, and what a refined beast it is. Success in the face of real competition is what changes the playing field. Just remember its the games that make a console, and MS has clearly done a tremendous job in courting exclusives...if the install base is large enough, THATS where dev's and pub's go, as they obviously want to push the most games, and in this day and age of production costs, thats priority number one. Console has penetration, console gets more exclusives, gamers buy more of that console, cycle repeats until the console is the clear victor with the most exclusive experiences. ...and just to finish, the Wii kicks all sorts of ass, and I'm having a blast mastering Red Steel's somewhat glitchy control and Zelda's tactile feel to everything. My arms are sore from my daily, hour long training sessions in Wii sports (tennis target practice is the best thing ever) and Raving Rabbids is by far the most torturous game ever made, hehe. Bring on Madden! ( I haven't played a football game since Madden was just called Madden with no year date, back on the Sega Genesis). For the sake of the topic, I won't toss the Wii into the mix, but be for damn sure its going to make an impact thats clearly going to shift appeal away from Sony. Cheers Last edited by EvoG; 11-29-2006 at 01:29 AM.. Reason: Clarifed Fourth Paragraph

11-20-2006, 05:35 PM	#285
undeaf Junior Member Last Online: 12-24-2009 07:25 PM Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Tee Oh Posts: 842	Really, you'd be that upset about a $50-100 add on? If it's all that big, microsoft will shrink it down, and/or they will make a version of the 360 with it built in. MegaCD was made for one reason in Japan and was clumsily addapted for other things in the other markets, it also had an extra CPU and ram in it to increase costs, and could not be used to help push through a format. N64DD was expected to be a failure by nintendo.

11-21-2006, 12:15 AM	#288
Litrick hello Last Online: 07-11-2007 03:21 PM Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 379	I dont understand why people form loyalties to one company and stick by it even if it defies logic. why not just look at it objectively, see which console has the best games and then buy that.... people get so biased by their strange loyalties its just ridiculous... Regardless, you only need to look at society and its perception towards video games and playstation to see that the ps3 is going to be a huge success. for example a lot of people refer to playing video games as "playing playstation" regardless of whether or not they are actually refering to a specific playstation. Playstation has become synonymous with video gaming, it is entrenched in our society... just buy both.. then you dont have to worry about which is better (i know i know money money money)