You Lose (X360 vs. PS3) - Page 5

Intrepid Homoludens · 05-21-2006, 08:04 PM

PS3 dev kit.

Here's yet another interesting angle on Sony's actions:

Analyst: PlayStation 3 Price Could Hurt Sony, Industry | Gamasutra, May 19, 2006

Quote:

A new report from analyst group DFC Intelligence has questioned Sony's pricing model for its upcoming PlayStation 3 platform, which will ship in November with two separate SKUs, the high-end of which will cost $599, a price $200 above its nearest competitor, and twice that of the initial cost of the PlayStation 2.

“The video game business model has been to build an installed base of tens of millions of users in a very short-time frame,” read the report issued on Wednesday. “A key factor in this model is relatively low cost hardware.”

The report concedes that some will be willing to pay the premium demanded by the console, but that through this pricing model Sony is targeting the console at a much smaller consumer base. However, while consumers who are interested in buying the PlayStation 3 for its Blue-ray capabilities may see the price as a value when compared to stand alone Blue-ray players, game publishers stand to lose on the investment if these same customers do not also invest in the console's video game library.

“The PlayStation 3 needs to justify its price difference as a game machine,” read the report. “In terms of game software it currently looks like the Xbox 360 will be able to match the PS3 punch-for-punch in the important genres like shooting, RPGs, racing, sports, Grand Theft Auto IV and others.” DFC continued by asking “Will Sony's brand name alone explain a $200 price difference to the gaming audience?"

DFC Intelligence concluded by iterating that Sony's pricing model for the next-generation could have implications that reach beyond simply the cost of the new console. "The higher priced the hardware, the lower overall industry growth will be," read the report. “Unfortunately, there is a sinking feeling that things may have spun out of control for Sony and thus price cuts will be slow in coming. While that may be good news for Microsoft and Nintendo it could spell rough times for publishers that have come to rely so much on Sony’s ability to build a huge market of devoted video game consumers.”

SaadThaGoat · 05-21-2006, 09:21 PM

LOL what would you expect from graphs sent by Microsoft to IGN?

Heres some good debate on these topics.

http://boardsus.playstation.com/play...cending&page=4

http://boardsus.playstation.com/play...cending&page=1

SaadThaGoat · 05-21-2006, 09:22 PM

Also, from everything i've read from developers, it seems to me they are pretty equal or the ps3 is "slightly" more powerful. who cares is what i say, i'm just after the game selection, which i think makes PS untouchable.

Intrepid Homoludens · 05-21-2006, 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaadThaGoat

LOL what would you expect from graphs sent by Microsoft to IGN?

Sony isn't exactly one that doesn't hype itself either. Both companies have done their share.

Quote:

Also, from everything i've read from developers, it seems to me they are pretty equal or the ps3 is "slightly" more powerful. who cares is what i say, i'm just after the game selection, which i think makes PS untouchable.

Who cares? I do. I'm ultimately not one of those who likes to instigate rivalry between the industry giants. I prefer to just choose the console that's best for ME and ME ALONE. It just happens that MS consoles have the actual games I'm personally interested in, but that doesn't mean I'm gonna go to the top of the Sears Tower and declare that the Xbox360 is 't3h g0d'. I mean, that's just stupid.

insane_cobra · 05-21-2006, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaadThaGoat

who cares is what i say, i'm just after the game selection, which i think makes PS untouchable.

I wouldn't be so sure of that. Sure, there will be many great 1st and 2nd party games for PS3, but expecting third party support to be the same as in previous generation where Xbox started as a late newcomer with literally zero market share is a bit too optimistic. We'll probably see more multiplatform titles.

And let's not forget PS3 is a more expensive console with more expensive development and unproven online service. The adoption rate in the frst several months might be a critical factor in determining future third party developer support.

Spiwak · 05-22-2006, 02:07 AM

What Saad said about games is a matter of preference. We already know things like DMC series and Ueda's games and Jaffe's games and Kojima's games and the Final Fantasies will all be on the PS3. His opinion of the well-known Sony franchises vs Nintendo's or Xbox's isn't really up for debate.

insane_cobra · 05-22-2006, 03:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spiwak

What Saad said about games is a matter of preference. We already know things like DMC series and Ueda's games and Jaffe's games and Kojima's games and the Final Fantasies will all be on the PS3. His opinion of the well-known Sony franchises vs Nintendo's or Xbox's isn't really up for debate.

It remains to be seen, however, if third party games on that list will end up being PS3 exclusives. I expect some of them to be timed exclusives at best.

Btw, Kojima's been awfully appreciative of Xbox 360 lately.

squarejawhero · 05-22-2006, 04:58 AM

I don't want to give money to this man, ever. He's right... but don't you just want him to fail?

VictimOfScience · 05-22-2006, 05:37 AM

Who cares which is more powerful?? Like the article says, its the games that make or break the console. Thats why the PS2 won last round--it had tons more and varied titles than the original xbox or GC. Just let me see some final (and hopefully awesome) games for each system before I make a choice or start rattling off numbers....

*stuboy* · 05-22-2006, 06:08 AM

Ah, the Sony lie machine.

UK resistance even started a wiki.

The Cell processor is the new Emotion Engine. And we all know how awesome that was!

CrimsonBlue · 05-22-2006, 07:19 AM

Well, if an independant third party developer decides to make a game and not make it multiplatform, I think it's obvious which platform it most likely will be.

Intrepid Homoludens · 05-22-2006, 09:22 AM

Yet another new thing to complicate things...

Hollywood reportedly in agreement to delay forced quality downgrades for Blu-ray, HD DVD | Ars Technica, 5/21/2006

Quote:

As the DVD format welcomes two potential heirs to its kingship as the commercial video medium of choice, there are mounting concerns that these new heirs are nothing but pretenders. Blu-ray and HD DVD—the two competing "standards" for the next-generation of video discs—are both shackled with technologically-forged chains, but those chains may be broken by a consumer electronics industry wary of how their existence could hamper sales.

One of the most controversial aspects of these next-generation products is something called the Image Constraint Token (ICT), a security "feature" that allows studios to force-downgrade video quality on players that lack a special video output that was designed to thwart piracy....Many fear, however, that the only success HDMI will have is in making honest users miserable, inasmuch as consumers could be left with a product that plays at low quality or not at all if HDMI is not present on one's player or TV.

Sony stunned onlookers when it announced that the low-end PlayStation 3, which will retail for US$499, will not have HDMI. This put Sony in the awkward position of downplaying HDMI as a "must have" feature for a next-generation optical disc player. Kaz Hirai, CEO of Sony Computer Entertainment of America, sidestepped the lack of HDMI by painting it as a high-end standard that wouldn't be aesthetically appreciated by many consumers.

"The only difference is HDMI – and at this point, I don't think many people's TV's have that. The ultimate result, to my eyes anyway, is there's not a discernible difference between what you get between HDMI and other forms of high definition," he said.

On one level, he's correct. Few consumers will appreciate the difference between 1080i on a component cable (analog) and 1080p on HDMI. What he ignored is the real trade-off: without HDMI, that 1920x1080 (1080i/p) or 1280 x 720 (720p) picture, analog or not, could be rendered at a less impressive 960x540 (540p) if the ICT was present and obeyed. While 540p is indeed better than today's DVD standard, few consumers would spend $500-$1000 on a new player and as much as $10 more per movie to get it. If part of Sony's big pitch for the PS3 is "hey, this thing is also futureproof because it does Blu-ray!," then ditching support for HDMI doesn't make sense in a world where the absence of HDMI could negate much of the promise of Blu-ray.

Then there's Microsoft. The company launched the Xbox 360 last November sans HD DVD drive, which turned out to be a wise thing to do, as both HD DVD and Blu-ray were delayed by setbacks with the new AACS security system. Microsoft nevertheless intends to support HD DVD on the Xbox 360 by shipping an external HD DVD player for the console in time for the 2006 holiday season. The add-on drive will connect to the Xbox via a USB 2.0 cable, but the console currently lacks an HDMI connector, just like the low-end PS3. Microsoft has not announced support for HDMI for the Xbox 360, though speculation is ripe that the company will release a dongle for the console after Lik-Sang posted a product page for it. For that dongle to do the trick, however, Microsoft would need to be able to add HDMI support via a firmware update, and their current proprietary output connector would need to meet HDMI standards. It is not yet clear if HDMI can be added to the Xbox 360 without a hardware revision, but that question may be seen as "moot" if in fact HDMI won't be a barrier to true 720 or 1080i/p until 4 to 6 years from now.

If indeed there is an "agreement" of sorts between companies like Microsoft and Sony and the studios (including Sony's own entertainment interests), this could certainly help to explain why these consoles are shipping today without HDMI support. But such unofficial agreements are gentlemanly in nature: at any time, all bets could be off. In the meantime, it appears as though Hollywood is playing it safe, hoping to keep the boogeyman of HDMI at bay while consumers weigh their options. Whether or not the strategy is ultimately about keeping users happy or lulling them into a false sense of security remains to be seen, but we're fairly certain that ICT was designed to be used, and used it will be.

insane_cobra · 05-22-2006, 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrimsonBlue

Well, if an independant third party developer decides to make a game and not make it multiplatform, I think it's obvious which platform it most likely will be.

Actually, there's no universal answer to that. Depends on your target audience, the kind of game you want to make, the amount of time, money and effort you're willing to invest, the installed user base and some other factors.

But the simplest, though very generalizing answer would be: the most widespread one.

SoccerDude28 · 05-22-2006, 01:05 PM

The arguments concerning who will be the next winner in the next gen war is moot at this point, since 2 of the consoles have not even released yet. Analysts project based on what they think is common sense, but half the time, they are wrong. I don't understand why people can't just enjoy the console they buy without dissing the competition all the time. Each console has its games and audience. If you don't like it, that's cool, but it's tiring to see thread after thread, and argument after argument hammering about the same points. And trust me, competition IS good. You do want Sony out there, because it will push Microsoft to work harder. Life will be so boring if there is one alternative for all of us to use.

insane_cobra · 05-22-2006, 02:26 PM

I think arguments like this are very useful, at least up to the point at which they degenerate into fanboyish denial of facts. People can learn things from them, things not usually mentioned in PR material. How many people are out there wanting to buy a PS3 without really knowing much about it? They want it just because it's a Sony PlayStation and they've heard PS is teh best!

On the other hand, how many will buy an Xbox 360 because it's cheaper and then bitch about not being able to play MGS4 on it? Or watch Blu-ray movies? Um, not as many, I guess, but still... You get my point.

Now, there may not be many such people on these forums, but you can still pick some useful information if you pay attention and double check the sources. I want to be well aware of all the pros and cons before I cash out for an expensive piece of equipment and I want the same for others.

Intrepid Homoludens · 05-29-2006, 08:34 PM

Interesting. Bet you guys didn't know that in addition to electronics, Sony also does things like, erm.....

.....skin care products and foie gras?!!! However, they're not exactly considered leaders in innovation anymore.

Moisturize your skin while playing on your shiny new Playstation3!

Cutting Sony, a Corporate Octopus, Back to a Rational Size | The New York Times, 5/29/06

Quote:

In the United States, Sony is known as an aggressive electronics giant that expanded into music and Hollywood films, with mixed results. But at home in Japan, Sony is large and diffuse, a sprawling conglomerate that sells products as diverse as flashlight batteries, online banking services — even foie gras.

This presents a problem. Sony has expanded into so many business areas in Japan and abroad that it has blurred its original identity as an engineering innovator. Analysts say this murkier image threatens one of the company's most profitable assets: the so-called Sony premium, the higher prices long commanded by its electronics products, which still account for 64 percent of revenue, excluding sales between Sony divisions.

Restoring this premium, they say, is one of the most pressing challenges facing Sony's chief executive, Sir Howard Stringer, who took over nearly a year ago, as he tries to reinvigorate the company after years of lackluster products and disappointing profits. While earnings have begun recovering, analysts say, the premium is still shrinking.

Sony remains one of the world's best-known brands. But even in the United States, analysts say, it is as likely to be associated with the movie "The Da Vinci Code" as with portable music devices, a product category Sony invented in 1979 with the Walkman cassette player but which the Apple iPod now dominates.

"What is Sony?" asked Hitoshi Kuriyama, an analyst with Merrill Lynch. "We don't even know anymore. Consumers used to pay more because the brand meant something special."

full news article

Spiwak · 05-31-2006, 08:59 PM

Harrison denies Wii influenced PS3 controller, says PCs unnecessary

Sony exec says accusations of next-gen copycatting are "stupid," says the console will render traditional PCs moot in the home.

This guy bothers me.

insane_cobra · 05-31-2006, 11:19 PM

Doesn't bother me, he's harmlessly stupid. Harmlessly for anyone but Sony, that is.

artwking4 · 06-01-2006, 01:04 PM

Unless the PS3 (and it's games) can be made to use a USB keyboard, mouse, printer/scanner, etc, and have a writable optical drive, it definitely won't be replacing a computer anytime soon.

SoccerDude28 · 06-01-2006, 01:31 PM

360's BW compatibility days numbered

According to a Kikizo interview with Microsoft VP Peter Moore, that could very well be the case. "Nobody is concerned anymore about backward compatibility," Moore said. "We under promised and over delivered on backward compatibility. Yeah, there are a few games...It's a very complicated thing. Developing software emulation for this thing is very complex work."

While phasing out BC with future Xbox games was almost certainly going to happen sometime, Moore's comments seem to imply that it's happening sooner than most thought.

"More are coming...but at some point you just go 'there's enough,' or 'let's move on'...people aren't as worried about a game being backward compatible," he said. "I like to think we upheld our end of the bargain [with backward compatibility]."

05-22-2006, 04:58 AM	#88
squarejawhero Epinionated. Last Online: 06-07-2010 10:54 AM Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: London Posts: 5,841	I don't want to give money to this man, ever. He's right... but don't you just want him to fail? __________________ Starter of Thread Must Die.

05-22-2006, 06:08 AM	#90
stuboy Staff Member Last Online: 09-15-2011 02:59 PM Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 531	Ah, the Sony lie machine. UK resistance even started a wiki. The Cell processor is the new Emotion Engine. And we all know how awesome that was! __________________ (Already hates your game)

05-22-2006, 01:05 PM	#94
SoccerDude28 Homer of Kittens Last Online: 08-20-2016 10:39 AM Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: San Francisco, Bay Area Posts: 4,374	The arguments concerning who will be the next winner in the next gen war is moot at this point, since 2 of the consoles have not even released yet. Analysts project based on what they think is common sense, but half the time, they are wrong. I don't understand why people can't just enjoy the console they buy without dissing the competition all the time. Each console has its games and audience. If you don't like it, that's cool, but it's tiring to see thread after thread, and argument after argument hammering about the same points. And trust me, competition IS good. You do want Sony out there, because it will push Microsoft to work harder. Life will be so boring if there is one alternative for all of us to use. __________________ -------------------------------------------------- Games I am playing: Jeanne D'Ark (PSP) Firefox rules

05-22-2006, 02:26 PM	#95
insane_cobra gin soaked boy Last Online: 10-21-2010 12:08 AM Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Virovitica, Croatia Posts: 4,093	I think arguments like this are very useful, at least up to the point at which they degenerate into fanboyish denial of facts. People can learn things from them, things not usually mentioned in PR material. How many people are out there wanting to buy a PS3 without really knowing much about it? They want it just because it's a Sony PlayStation and they've heard PS is teh best! On the other hand, how many will buy an Xbox 360 because it's cheaper and then bitch about not being able to play MGS4 on it? Or watch Blu-ray movies? Um, not as many, I guess, but still... You get my point. Now, there may not be many such people on these forums, but you can still pick some useful information if you pay attention and double check the sources. I want to be well aware of all the pros and cons before I cash out for an expensive piece of equipment and I want the same for others. __________________ What you piss in is yours for life.

05-31-2006, 11:19 PM	#98
insane_cobra gin soaked boy Last Online: 10-21-2010 12:08 AM Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Virovitica, Croatia Posts: 4,093	Doesn't bother me, he's harmlessly stupid. Harmlessly for anyone but Sony, that is. __________________ What you piss in is yours for life.

05-21-2006, 09:21 PM	#82
SaadThaGoat Junior Member Last Online: 10-17-2007 01:42 PM Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 22	LOL what would you expect from graphs sent by Microsoft to IGN? Heres some good debate on these topics. http://boardsus.playstation.com/play...cending&page=4 http://boardsus.playstation.com/play...cending&page=1

05-21-2006, 09:22 PM	#83
SaadThaGoat Junior Member Last Online: 10-17-2007 01:42 PM Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 22	Also, from everything i've read from developers, it seems to me they are pretty equal or the ps3 is "slightly" more powerful. who cares is what i say, i'm just after the game selection, which i think makes PS untouchable.

05-22-2006, 02:07 AM	#86
Spiwak is not wierd Last Online: 10-28-2008 05:34 PM Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 2,148	What Saad said about games is a matter of preference. We already know things like DMC series and Ueda's games and Jaffe's games and Kojima's games and the Final Fantasies will all be on the PS3. His opinion of the well-known Sony franchises vs Nintendo's or Xbox's isn't really up for debate.

05-22-2006, 05:37 AM	#89
VictimOfScience Senior Member Last Online: 10-19-2010 07:19 PM Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: US and A Posts: 175	Who cares which is more powerful?? Like the article says, its the games that make or break the console. Thats why the PS2 won last round--it had tons more and varied titles than the original xbox or GC. Just let me see some final (and hopefully awesome) games for each system before I make a choice or start rattling off numbers....

05-22-2006, 07:19 AM	#91
CrimsonBlue Senior Member Last Online: 05-09-2012 10:57 PM Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 1,167	Well, if an independant third party developer decides to make a game and not make it multiplatform, I think it's obvious which platform it most likely will be.

05-31-2006, 08:59 PM	#97
Spiwak is not wierd Last Online: 10-28-2008 05:34 PM Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 2,148	Harrison denies Wii influenced PS3 controller, says PCs unnecessary Sony exec says accusations of next-gen copycatting are "stupid," says the console will render traditional PCs moot in the home. This guy bothers me.

06-01-2006, 01:04 PM	#99
artwking4 Jack Bauer loves you Last Online: 11-04-2008 11:53 PM Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 1,524	Unless the PS3 (and it's games) can be made to use a USB keyboard, mouse, printer/scanner, etc, and have a writable optical drive, it definitely won't be replacing a computer anytime soon. __________________ An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life. -- Robert A. Heinlein

06-01-2006, 01:31 PM	#100
SoccerDude28 Homer of Kittens Last Online: 08-20-2016 10:39 AM Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: San Francisco, Bay Area Posts: 4,374	360's BW compatibility days numbered According to a Kikizo interview with Microsoft VP Peter Moore, that could very well be the case. "Nobody is concerned anymore about backward compatibility," Moore said. "We under promised and over delivered on backward compatibility. Yeah, there are a few games...It's a very complicated thing. Developing software emulation for this thing is very complex work." While phasing out BC with future Xbox games was almost certainly going to happen sometime, Moore's comments seem to imply that it's happening sooner than most thought. "More are coming...but at some point you just go 'there's enough,' or 'let's move on'...people aren't as worried about a game being backward compatible," he said. "I like to think we upheld our end of the bargain [with backward compatibility]." __________________ -------------------------------------------------- Games I am playing: Jeanne D'Ark (PSP) Firefox rules