You Lose (X360 vs. PS3) - Page 7

SoccerDude28 · 06-02-2006, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by insane_cobra

Yay! Can I say I told you so? Just this one time?

You can say it again

Although, I want to see how far they are going with this. Their VP suggested otherwise, so we'll have to wait and see.

Intrepid Homoludens · 06-02-2006, 11:29 PM

Cost of being hard-core video gamer climbs | Yahoo News, Fri Jun 2, 2006

Quote:

Higher console prices are not the only first.

"You never had to buy a new TV before to play video games," Pachter said.

Indeed, many owners of the Xbox 360, which came out in November, quickly realized that to get their money's worth they needed to upgrade to a wide-screen HD TV -- an investment that can quickly run upward of $700.

"The price-sensitive consumer is watching the cost of the monitor," said Pachter, who added that the 42-inch HD TV many gamers would want costs between $1,500 and $2000.

"The price-sensitive consumer is watching the cost of the monitor," said Pachter, who added that the 42-inch HD TV many gamers would want costs between $1,500 and $2000.

"All 16-year-old boys are hard-core gamers, do they have $2,000 laying around?" he said.

Further, the new Microsoft and Sony consoles connect to online services offering free and for-sale downloads. A subscription to Microsoft's Xbox Live that allows group game play costs $50 per year and requires a high-speed Internet connection that costs roughly $40 per month.

Finally, new games for the system run $60, 20 percent more than for the PS2 and original Xbox.

Some analysts are concerned that the higher prices could keep mainstream gamers on the sidelines longer than in previous transitions, leaving the overall industry in the doldrums.

"It's more the 'Regular Joe' gamer who's going to feel the prices. To them, games aren't live or die things," Cole said.

insane_cobra · 06-02-2006, 11:56 PM

Guess what? All of a sudden market share is not that important to Sony.

Intrepid Homoludens · 06-03-2006, 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sony's European honcho David Reeves

"The name of the game is not market share, it's how fast we can grow the industry—our ambition is to grow 15 per cent a year on hardware and software if we can. We want to try and double digital entertainment in the next five to six years. Whether we have 40, 50, or 60 per cent market share is not that important."

Erm........

insane_cobra · 06-03-2006, 01:10 AM

A helluva way to grow the industry, by making your product inaccessible to a great deal of people.

Spiwak · 06-03-2006, 10:35 AM

I'm confused. They already have way more than 50% (probably more than 70%) of the current market share. How will dropping to only 40% be "growing"? That would be a big fall for Sony.

SoccerDude28 · 06-03-2006, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spiwak

I'm confused. They already have way more than 50% (probably more than 70%) of the current market share. How will dropping to only 40% be "growing"? That would be a big fall for Sony.

It could be growing in terms of profits. You know why? Because unlike Microsoft, Sony has an investment in the DVD movie market as well. And do you know why Sony is integrating Blu-Ray into their console, which makes it cost 200 dollars more? Why would they put themselves at such a disadvantage in terms of price? Is winning the DVD format war so important that it costs them 200 dollar more, and possibly some market share? Well just look at it from this perspective, if Blu-Ray wins, for every single blu-ray movie you will buy in the future, Sony will get a cut in the price, just like console manufacturers do with games now. So can you imagine how much money that is? They are gambling on possibly losing some market share in the game market, at the expense of complete dominance in the movie DVD industry. If it works, the pay off for them will be huge.

Spiwak · 06-03-2006, 12:39 PM

Something about that leaves a little distaste in my mouth.

insane_cobra · 06-03-2006, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoccerDude28

Well just look at it from this perspective, if Blu-Ray wins, for every single blu-ray movie you will buy in the future, Sony will get a cut in the price, just like console manufacturers do with games now.

Is that a confirmed fact? I mean, there are a lot of companies in the Blu-ray Disc Association, is Sony really in such an advantageous position? Has anyone been picking cream for DVD releases in a similar way?

Anyway, in that case it's an even bigger gamble for Sony as they're betting everything on Blu-ray's success and that's far from guaranteed.

RLacey · 06-03-2006, 03:06 PM

Heh. The problem with using Blu-ray in that way (and I too suspect that it's what Sony is planning) is that the PS3 still needs to be a huge success. At the moment, that's likely, but far from guaranteed.

Personally, I'm rooting for HD-DVD, but the largest reason for that is precisely because it's the format not backed by Sony...

SoccerDude28 · 06-03-2006, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by insane_cobra

Is that a confirmed fact? I mean, there are a lot of companies in the Blu-ray Disc Association, is Sony really in such an advantageous position? Has anyone been picking cream for DVD releases in a similar way?

I read it in a magazine recently. But think about it, why would Sony push so much for blu-ray (putting their console at a price disadvantage), if they did not reap any benefit out of it?

Intrepid Homoludens · 06-03-2006, 07:17 PM

Why would they push for Betamax? Many analysts are speculating that it's a very big risk for Sony. A very big risk. If Blu-ray doesn't catch on big time they'll be in trouble big time. If it does catch on they'll do well for a while until other electronics companies begin offering Blu-ray players and the increasing ubiquity drives the price for the technology lower.

SoccerDude28 · 06-04-2006, 12:49 AM

Other companies already offer blu-ray players. Panasonic came up with a high end one that costs you a fortune. It is definitely a big risk for Sony, but they do have the better technology and the support of multiple companies.

insane_cobra · 06-04-2006, 01:16 AM

HD-DVD also enjoys support of multiple companies (granted, more - but not all - movie studios are on Blu-ray's side), players cost only half as much, it's cheaper to produce, requires minimal or no retooling of manufacturing plants and can carry normal DVD data on the flip side of the disc allowing people to buy movies now and upgrade their players when they're ready.

So Blu-ray is better, but HD-DVD is more than good enough. The war is far from decided.

Dasilva · 06-04-2006, 05:44 AM

Why do I get the feeling HD-DVD will win over Blu-ray? I mean the people who are making Blu-ray made betamax, and we all know VHS won that war.

Spiwak · 06-04-2006, 08:11 AM

Is one disc better than the other?

Intrepid Homoludens · 06-04-2006, 10:12 AM

Not sure about the technical advantages, but there is the psycho-cultural factor. I think HD-DVD has a particular edge because it sounds more familiar to everyone (and I'm talking about the vast majority of consumers, not just the tech nerds); we would feel it's the next logical progression from standard DVD and CD-ROM formats. It's also better known altogether in terms of what's out there for high definition.

Blu-ray sounds impressive enough but it's not as ubiquitous, not as much is known about it. Ask people on the street or in the malls how they feel about Blu-ray and they'll most likely give you a quizzical look. Ask them about HD-DVD and they'll know what you're talking about. Sony will have to do some strategic marketing to pimp their PS3 as a multimedia center, whereas most people already know about Xbox360 (not least surprisingly because it's been out about 8 months now).

The advent of Blu-ray vs. HD-DVD will help create a dichotomy in the market, causing consumers to have to make a choice on which format to go with for their movies. Many of them will wait for the price of Blu-ray players to go down (much like what happened with DVD players when they first came out). But many others will opt for the Xbox360 and its HD-DVD drive. Sony will have a bit of power over the format of the movies they own under their Sony Pictures operations, but if they're smart they'll also offer it in HD-DVD format.

insane_cobra · 06-04-2006, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Intrepid Homoludens

Sony will have a bit of power over the format of the movies they own under their Sony Pictures operations, but if they're smart they'll also offer it in HD-DVD format.

They'd be crazy to undermine their format in such a way. I believe there'll be no HD-DVD releases from Sony unless it becomes clear that HD-DVD would win.

Spiwak, the main difference is that Blu-ray offers bigger capacity. However, it's also more expensive.

Intrepid Homoludens · 06-04-2006, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by insane_cobra

They'd be crazy to undermine their format in such a way. I believe there'll be no HD-DVD releases from Sony unless it becomes clear that HD-DVD would win.

Bingo! If Blu-ray becomes a force to be reckoned with then Sony will have an edge with the PS3 - as a media console. Evidently they're feeling insanely confident about that to the point where they're risking a huge amount of money. But if HD-DVD becomes a dominant format then Sony would have offer movies in that format to snag market shares and risk undermining themselves anyway, and re-market the PS3 more as a gaming console with the option to play Blu-ray movies.

And considering all the upper management comings and goings (the PR person just quit) and lawsuits in their other divisions, as well as losing exclusivity with major cash cow game developers like Rockstar, it's rather surprising they're taking such a huge risk.

Jatsie · 06-04-2006, 11:03 AM

I'm hoping Blu-ray wins the format war.

I don't really care about high definition television, so I currently have no plans to buy a machine to play high definition films.

I presently have zero motivation to buy a "next-gen" console either.

If Blu-ray emerges as the dominant medium, that will be PS3's main selling point for me. I bought my PS2 when it first came out, and it has been the only DVD player I've needed. If I can buy another device that performs multiple functions, then I will be quite content.

As a side note, apart from Blu-ray's greater storage capacity, its other advantage over HD-DVD is its unprecedented scratch resistance due to a clear polymer coating called Durabis.

06-02-2006, 11:56 PM	#123
insane_cobra gin soaked boy Last Online: 10-21-2010 12:08 AM Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Virovitica, Croatia Posts: 4,093	Guess what? All of a sudden market share is not that important to Sony. __________________ What you piss in is yours for life.

06-03-2006, 01:10 AM	#125
insane_cobra gin soaked boy Last Online: 10-21-2010 12:08 AM Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Virovitica, Croatia Posts: 4,093	A helluva way to grow the industry, by making your product inaccessible to a great deal of people. __________________ What you piss in is yours for life.

06-03-2006, 03:06 PM	#130
RLacey The Thread™ will die. Last Online: 07-11-2012 11:25 PM Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 22,542	Heh. The problem with using Blu-ray in that way (and I too suspect that it's what Sony is planning) is that the PS3 still needs to be a huge success. At the moment, that's likely, but far from guaranteed. Personally, I'm rooting for HD-DVD, but the largest reason for that is precisely because it's the format not backed by Sony... __________________ RLacey \| Killer of the Thread™ I do not change to be perfect. Perfect changes to be me.

06-03-2006, 07:17 PM	#132
Intrepid Homoludens merely human Last Online: 05-17-2012 02:26 AM Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Chicago Posts: 22,309	Why would they push for Betamax? Many analysts are speculating that it's a very big risk for Sony. A very big risk. If Blu-ray doesn't catch on big time they'll be in trouble big time. If it does catch on they'll do well for a while until other electronics companies begin offering Blu-ray players and the increasing ubiquity drives the price for the technology lower. __________________ platform: laptop, iPhone 3Gs \| gaming: x360, PS3, psp, iPhone, wii \| blog: a space alien \| book: the moral landscape: how science can determine human values by sam harris \| games: l.a.noire, portal 2, brink, dragon age 2, heavy rain \| sites: NPR, skeptoid, gaygamer \| music: ray lamontagne, adele, washed out, james blake \| twitter: a_space_alien

06-04-2006, 12:49 AM	#133
SoccerDude28 Homer of Kittens Last Online: 08-20-2016 10:39 AM Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: San Francisco, Bay Area Posts: 4,374	Other companies already offer blu-ray players. Panasonic came up with a high end one that costs you a fortune. It is definitely a big risk for Sony, but they do have the better technology and the support of multiple companies. __________________ -------------------------------------------------- Games I am playing: Jeanne D'Ark (PSP) Firefox rules

06-03-2006, 10:35 AM	#126
Spiwak is not wierd Last Online: 10-28-2008 05:34 PM Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 2,148	I'm confused. They already have way more than 50% (probably more than 70%) of the current market share. How will dropping to only 40% be "growing"? That would be a big fall for Sony.

06-03-2006, 12:39 PM	#128
Spiwak is not wierd Last Online: 10-28-2008 05:34 PM Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 2,148	Something about that leaves a little distaste in my mouth.

06-04-2006, 01:16 AM	#134
insane_cobra gin soaked boy Last Online: 10-21-2010 12:08 AM Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Virovitica, Croatia Posts: 4,093	HD-DVD also enjoys support of multiple companies (granted, more - but not all - movie studios are on Blu-ray's side), players cost only half as much, it's cheaper to produce, requires minimal or no retooling of manufacturing plants and can carry normal DVD data on the flip side of the disc allowing people to buy movies now and upgrade their players when they're ready. So Blu-ray is better, but HD-DVD is more than good enough. The war is far from decided. __________________ What you piss in is yours for life.

06-04-2006, 05:44 AM	#135
Dasilva Hitch-Hiker Last Online: 03-08-2019 04:08 PM Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: The Mediterranean Sea Posts: 4,364	Why do I get the feeling HD-DVD will win over Blu-ray? I mean the people who are making Blu-ray made betamax, and we all know VHS won that war. __________________ Regards, DaSilva "If you don't get out of the box you've been raised in, you won't understand how much bigger the world is." - Angelina Jolie _ <Susan falls through the floor and gets stuck> <Paco looks at her blankly> "Whats wrong with you?! Lassy would of had a firetruck here by now!" - Susan Mayer, Desperate Housewives

06-04-2006, 08:11 AM	#136
Spiwak is not wierd Last Online: 10-28-2008 05:34 PM Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 2,148	Is one disc better than the other?

06-04-2006, 10:12 AM	#137
Intrepid Homoludens merely human Last Online: 05-17-2012 02:26 AM Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Chicago Posts: 22,309	Not sure about the technical advantages, but there is the psycho-cultural factor. I think HD-DVD has a particular edge because it sounds more familiar to everyone (and I'm talking about the vast majority of consumers, not just the tech nerds); we would feel it's the next logical progression from standard DVD and CD-ROM formats. It's also better known altogether in terms of what's out there for high definition. Blu-ray sounds impressive enough but it's not as ubiquitous, not as much is known about it. Ask people on the street or in the malls how they feel about Blu-ray and they'll most likely give you a quizzical look. Ask them about HD-DVD and they'll know what you're talking about. Sony will have to do some strategic marketing to pimp their PS3 as a multimedia center, whereas most people already know about Xbox360 (not least surprisingly because it's been out about 8 months now). The advent of Blu-ray vs. HD-DVD will help create a dichotomy in the market, causing consumers to have to make a choice on which format to go with for their movies. Many of them will wait for the price of Blu-ray players to go down (much like what happened with DVD players when they first came out). But many others will opt for the Xbox360 and its HD-DVD drive. Sony will have a bit of power over the format of the movies they own under their Sony Pictures operations, but if they're smart they'll also offer it in HD-DVD format. __________________ platform: laptop, iPhone 3Gs \| gaming: x360, PS3, psp, iPhone, wii \| blog: a space alien \| book: the moral landscape: how science can determine human values by sam harris \| games: l.a.noire, portal 2, brink, dragon age 2, heavy rain \| sites: NPR, skeptoid, gaygamer \| music: ray lamontagne, adele, washed out, james blake \| twitter: a_space_alien

06-04-2006, 11:03 AM	#140
Jatsie Lovable rogue Last Online: 05-20-2012 12:39 PM Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Great Britain Posts: 6,378	I'm hoping Blu-ray wins the format war. I don't really care about high definition television, so I currently have no plans to buy a machine to play high definition films. I presently have zero motivation to buy a "next-gen" console either. If Blu-ray emerges as the dominant medium, that will be PS3's main selling point for me. I bought my PS2 when it first came out, and it has been the only DVD player I've needed. If I can buy another device that performs multiple functions, then I will be quite content. As a side note, apart from Blu-ray's greater storage capacity, its other advantage over HD-DVD is its unprecedented scratch resistance due to a clear polymer coating called Durabis. __________________ "Jatsie is amazing." - Jazhara "My mental image of Jat is a gentleman sitting in a leather armchair, wearing a robe. The light in the room is dim and strangely he's not sitting in front of a computer, but next to a small, round table with a box of cigars on." - Jelena Gay-Nerds.com